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Why do you hate rich people?
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Re: Why do you hate rich people?
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Flash-in-the-pan
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 5639
Registered: 09-26-2007
Message 21 of 1,826
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I'd say your assessment is fairly accurate. The rich profit from business wealth, but it is primarily the businesses that create the jobs, not the wealthy. Note that one might say fewer rewards for the rich (i.e., less incentive to invest in or create businesses due to tax consequences) would stymie business growth (and thus job creation). There appears to be little evidence for this, however, and one would really need to look at the entire post WWII picture to make a reasonable assessment, not just 1980 onward. From what I have seen, there is little evidence to support meaningful job/economic growth due to tax cuts. Reagan's 2nd term may have been an exception, and is probably the prime evidentiary justification for continued tax cuts. The failure of the Bush II tax cuts to produce similar results is worth noting. The whole situation is made murky by natural economic cycles, however, and it may be that the expansion from 1982/3-1990 had much more to do with other factors than tax reform. It's also curious that the economy tanked shortly after the Reagan tax cuts had their greatest effect (1988-1990). Capital gains taxes are somewhat different -- at least to some extent. There is an interesting correlation between CG tax cuts and stock market booms (and eventual busts). There is also a correlation -- perhaps somewhat less strong -- between CG tax increases and poor stock performance. I think the 2002/3-2007 stock boom may have been at least partially fueled by the Bush II CG tax reductions. One has to wonder about the efficacy of the so-called "trickle-down" effect, as the richest Americans are now substantially richer. This should have created a substantial amount of wealth and jobs for the lower classes, but the evidence only really supports a widening rich-poor gap. The U-6 unemployment rate (the jobless rate) has been rising for decades. Surely trickle-down economics has not made so many of the lower classes so much better off that they need no longer work! Real net income for the wealthy has skyrocketed while the middle class has been treading water. This policy has repeatedly failed to meet its objective(s). Even if it did result in job creation, it did not result in an meaningful (if any) wealth creation for the lower classes.
dadsgolfing wrote: for the record, rich people don't create jobs. business owners and employers create jobs.; i have absolutely no problem with people who get rich by earning it. as a small business owner, i would love to be one of them some day. but don't assume that all rich people are creating jobs, or that all rich people earned it, because neither of those is true.
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09-01-2008 04:15 PM
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Re: Why do you hate rich people?
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skyguy
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2593
Registered: 12-11-2007
Message 23 of 1,826
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I don't hate rich people, though there are some I do envy. I don't envy what they have but what good work they're able to do with their money and wish I could do the same. As for how they became rich, some inherited money which is several generations old. When the original money was being made it was by the average hard working person. They lived frugally, successfully passed the wealth onto the next generation and it grew. Some wealth was strictly "the luck of the draw". Some married into wealth and probably a few stole their way to being wealthy. As for the tax shelters for the rich, that I do have a problem with. If you're going to provide that for the super wealthy then there should be a way to provide it for everyone.
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09-01-2008 04:34 PM
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Re: Why do you hate rich people?
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ALEIN51
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 4195
Registered: 08-17-2007
Message 24 of 1,826
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dadsgolfing, you are somewhat right. Not ALL rich people create jobs, however, I have never seen a poor person hire someone for a job. I run a small business as well. I do have people that work for me, although I am not rich by any means, I am not poor either. Sam Walton was a rich man, business owner, and he hired tons of folks.
666 is no longer alone
He's getting out the marrow in your backbone!
SUPPER'S READY
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09-01-2008 04:43 PM
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Re: Why do you hate rich people?
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Liber8tor
Regular Contributor
Posts: 697
Registered: 11-16-2007
Message 25 of 1,826
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I hate rich people because I am jealous. I want to be born into power, wealth and priviledge. I want to win the Sperm Lottery. I want tax breaks and a secret account in the Caymans so I don't have to pay any income tax. I want my Daddy to give me an oil company then I want to run for President and rule the world.
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09-01-2008 04:54 PM
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Re: Why do you hate rich people?
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Betterdaysahead
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 7259
Registered: 01-21-2008
Message 26 of 1,826
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Good points. With the median income falling significantly during the Bush years and with prices rising, the gap between the rich and the rest of Americans is widening, after significantly increasing during the Clinton years. The facts show that the Bush-McCain/Gramm "trickle down" economic theories don't work -- but they work for them and their buddies. ------------------ Flashinthepan wrote: I'd say your assessment is fairly accurate. The rich profit from business wealth, but it is primarily the businesses that create the jobs, not the wealthy. Note that one might say fewer rewards for the rich (i.e., less incentive to invest in or create businesses due to tax consequences) would stymie business growth (and thus job creation). There appears to be little evidence for this, however, and one would really need to look at the entire post WWII picture to make a reasonable assessment, not just 1980 onward. From what I have seen, there is little evidence to support meaningful job/economic growth due to tax cuts. Reagan's 2nd term may have been an exception, and is probably the prime evidentiary justification for continued tax cuts. The failure of the Bush II tax cuts to produce similar results is worth noting. The whole situation is made murky by natural economic cycles, however, and it may be that the expansion from 1982/3-1990 had much more to do with other factors than tax reform. It's also curious that the economy tanked shortly after the Reagan tax cuts had their greatest effect (1988-1990). Capital gains taxes are somewhat different -- at least to some extent. There is an interesting correlation between CG tax cuts and stock market booms (and eventual busts). There is also a correlation -- perhaps somewhat less strong -- between CG tax increases and poor stock performance. I think the 2002/3-2007 stock boom may have been at least partially fueled by the Bush II CG tax reductions. One has to wonder about the efficacy of the so-called "trickle-down" effect, as the richest Americans are now substantially richer. This should have created a substantial amount of wealth and jobs for the lower classes, but the evidence only really supports a widening rich-poor gap. The U-6 unemployment rate (the jobless rate) has been rising for decades. Surely trickle-down economics has not made so many of the lower classes so much better off that they need no longer work! Real net income for the wealthy has skyrocketed while the middle class has been treading water. This policy has repeatedly failed to meet its objective(s). Even if it did result in job creation, it did not result in an meaningful (if any) wealth creation for the lower classes. |
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09-01-2008 04:58 PM
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Re: Why do you hate rich people?
[ Edited ]
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Flash-in-the-pan
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 5639
Registered: 09-26-2007
Message 27 of 1,826
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Tons of part-time jobs @ $7.92 to $8.23/hour (2001-03) -- less than $15k per year. The average full-time Walmart employee earned $17,114 in 2005. Massive wealth creation . . . for its stock owners (1975-93 & 1996-99)!
ALEIN51 wrote: dadsgolfing, you are somewhat right. Not ALL rich people create jobs, however, I have never seen a poor person hire someone for a job. I run a small business as well. I do have people that work for me, although I am not rich by any means, I am not poor either. Sam Walton was a rich man, business owner, and he hired tons of folks.
Message Edited by Flash-in-the-pan on 09-01-2008 05:17 PM
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09-01-2008 05:06 PM
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Re: Why do you hate rich people?
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Jimbo_1
Silver Star Contributor
Posts: 19558
Registered: 10-29-2007
Message 29 of 1,826
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Such as? Examples please.
bird_dog wrote:
There is much hate speech in this forum toward rich people.
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09-01-2008 05:36 PM
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